Now, here's something you don't see every day

[featherynscale]

Look. I'm going to talk about a couple of things that I don't usually, that being television and the concept of polyamory. I don't talk much about television because I don't usually have any interaction with it. I don't talk much about the concept of polyamory because I find that people who do are usually either proseletyzing for the lifestyle or trying to shock other people, and I'm not much into that.

But today it's come to my attention that HBO is running a show in the new season called Big Love that is about a guy and his three wives and their co-housing project. And, on the Dr. Phil show this week, we're getting this: "Twisted Love -- Charles says he has exhausted his relationship with his wife of 19
years, and he's ready to try an alternative lifestyle. Instead of getting a divorce, Charles wants to explore polyfidelity -- a relationship where he is shared between his wife and his mistress. The mistress says she'll give it a try, but his wife, Tracy, says the thought makes her sick. Can Charles convince his wife to share him for the sake of their marriage? And what does Dr. Phil think?"

Now, I'm not sure how the HBO show will work out. It's entirely possible that they might have a show where this multi-partner family is fairly reasonable and decent to one another, and that people who don't know people who are in poly families will walk away from it going, well, that's odd but it seems to be good for them, or even wow, those people are just like other people except there's more of them in the house, or other such sentiments.

I'm pretty certain, though, how the Dr. Phil bit is going to go. I mean, really, if I were a PR guy and my client wanted to push the thought that polyamory was evil and degrading, I could hardly pick a better story to use in the context of "exploring polyfidelity". This guy can't be faithful and honest with one partner, he's got a partner that doesn't want to bring new people into the relationship and he's trying to talk her into it, and he's wandering off because he's bored with his wife. That's about as far from responsible multi-partner relationships as you can get, really. I mean, I suppose he's moving towards honesty in his relationship, and that's probably good. But still, thanks, you guys, for making it seem more like polyamory is about cheating and getting more sex no matter what. Well done there.

Anyway, if any of you tv-watching types happen to catch this Big Love show, tell me if it's any good, will you? I'm interested to see.

Comments

[next-bold-move.livejournal.com]

I'm going to watch the Dr. Phil. Sad that they couldn't find a more positive example on the issue to contrast the loser they booked.

[featherynscale.livejournal.com]

I don't know a whole lot about Dr. Phil, but I'm guessing that finding a positive counterexample was not on the show's to-do list.

[next-bold-move.livejournal.com]

I watch the show occasionally as a exercise in cultural criticism--he's really not the big redneck that he might appear to be.

But this show looks to make me mad.

[brandy22kc.livejournal.com]

I'm not much into dr phil personally i think he's a crack pot, and any thing he does a show on puts a bad light on the subject to bad i dont get hbo that will hopefuly put a good light on the subject

[gamera-spinning.livejournal.com]

Now, I'm not sure how the HBO show will work out. It's entirely possible that they might have a show where this multi-partner family is fairly reasonable and decent to one another...

As a documentary on the Discovery channel, maybe. The modern twisted conception of television, particularly "reality TV" is based on conflict and getting people at their worst. I'd be very surprised if it shows people being decent to each other, but who knows...

[featherynscale.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's a 'reality' show. I think it's scripted, but then, it's hard to say.

I guess what I'm really hoping for here is that most of the conflict will come from outside their group, and that they will have some conflict but generally love each other and get over it. Sort of like, you know, other families in shows. But not like the one in Everybody Loves Raymond. Maybe.

[kieyra.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's a scripted drama, and HBO's scripted dramas are *way* better than anything on network television, much less reality television (*shudder*). And HBO's politics/censoring are apparently way left (as are Showtime's, which has several scripted dramas revolving around gays/lesbians), which means that in their scripted dramas they can use all sorts of things that would be banned on network television (sex, drug use, not believing in Christ, etc) and have them feel like an organic part of the storytelling rather than pandering.

Er, sorry for the PSA there. My overall point is that Big Love will most likely be well-written and non-exploitive of alternative lifestyles. I'm just personally not digging the Mormon angle.

[beccak1961.livejournal.com]

I should have read your comment first and said "ditto" instead of my own long-winded response ;>

[fionnabhar.livejournal.com]

::blink::

Oh, at first I though you said the guy was exhausted by his 19-year-old wife, and I wondered how a mistress was going to help with that. Raoul, the cabana boy, might be more practical. I'm just saying.

[featherynscale.livejournal.com]

That would be a better story, I think. :)

[kieyra.livejournal.com]

I'm semi-interested in Big Love; I find the subject matter very interesting, but the show is approaching it from a Mormon/LDS standpoint (the 'husband' was raised in a fundamentalist Mormon compound and is struggling to reconcile his upbringing with modern-day life. Or something).

I think the show will be trying to look at how 'complicated' their arrangement is (as opposed to how evil/dysfunctional/whatever), but I'd be far more interested if they were addressing a polyamorous relationship that felt more organic and less...institutional.

This is just what I've picked up from the PR, though. I'll probably check out one or two episodes. It's not on till March, though.

[greektoomey.livejournal.com]

It's widely recognized, by everyone who matters, that Dr. Phil is an asshole.

[diermuid.livejournal.com]

Not just an average a-hole, but someone who profiteers off taking people who have made their own decisions about how they want to live their life, dragging them out into the town square, and ridiculing them in front of the world with that "I want to help" fascade.

If he was intent on helping, he would not make them superstars of idiocy, instead he's turning a buck, like a cross between the 700 Club and Jerry Springer Show.

[greektoomey.livejournal.com]

I was trying to describe him moderately. The phrase I would use to express my opinion is "raging asshole."

Though I suppose I should allow for the possibility that some reasonable people may disagree.

[diermuid.livejournal.com]

I'd consider Van Damme a 'raging' a-hole, and would classify Phil as a misleading profiteer a-hole. But like you noted, reasonable people can have differing opinions. 8-)

I really dislike Dr. Phil too, but it's hard to really dislike someone in public when rational friends disagree and actually find him a good guy.

[diermuid.livejournal.com]

Messing around without permission is not polyamory, it's cheating with a shabby excuse, it's a new version of "but honey, I was drunk" in my eyes.

Currently there is no institute to defend polyamory against defamation. Until there is one, I'm afraid we're stuck with poly being just slighty more respected in the mainstream than Furplay. At least HBO has got people beginning to understand that it's not always like what the old-school Mormons are stuck on. 8-)

[featherynscale.livejournal.com]

Heh. I don't care anything about defamation. I'm just thinking that one day, I'm going to have to explain all this to Mom, and it would be nice to have some positive examples in the media that she can refer to.

[diermuid.livejournal.com]

Hrm, that does boggle the mind.

Then again it's hard to find positive examples of monogamy in the media, and that's a vastly larger base.

[featherynscale.livejournal.com]

Sure. But as I don't happen to be monogamous, I don't have to demonstrate that monogamy is healthy. ;)

[beccak1961.livejournal.com]

Some of my best friends are poly...
hah! I'm sorry but, I have friends all over the board with all sorts of lifestyles. I think I attract people because I don't care, and I don't mean I don't care in an insensitive way, I mean as long as everthing is consensual and between adults, I just don't care. I have other criteria for friendship... that being said, if Jim got tired of me and wanted to bring another woman in, then to me that's not Poly, that's forcing me into a decision of losing him, and the things he brings to the table...like his paycheck, or accepting something I don't want.

Now, Jim could always cheat on me, though I've told him if I catch him and her, she will die right away and he'll consider her to be the lucky one, but that's not because I'm against Poly lifestyles, but I am monogamous and I married someone who promised to be monogamous.

I gave that explanation because it colors the pictures I bring to something, everyone's life experiences does. And that is what will happen on HBO, I imagine. The editing will be done to keep it interesting, and sex and tension are interesting, watching three people (or more, whatever configuration is involved) do the dishes - not so much. Like any reality show, they will want ratings and that means some sort of spin. I hope people watching don't assume they are seeing the whole picture any more than they do on "survivor" or "the real world"

[beccak1961.livejournal.com]

I just saw where this is scripted, but the writers will still be bringing in their own colors of the world. I don't get HBO, but it would be interesting to watch, especially with the religion thrown in (hey, if I'm in a poly religion, I want multiple husbands too.) And have you ever noticed the wives in these things tend to get ever younger? The first wife might be 50 and the last one 19? if it's just for love why is it never older women added? huh? lol!

[fionnabhar.livejournal.com]

See, this is where I think nitpicking the semantics is important. To me, it's only polyamory if everybody loves everybody. If it's just a guy with two chicks, even if agreed upon, it's polygamy. Likewise, polyandry is one woman with multiple men who are not so much into each other. Neither should be confused, I suppose, with an open relationship.

Polyamory, while not my thing, makes sense. Anything else just sounds like a pain in the ass.

As for nodeal57, I've always said that it's the emotional attachment, rather than the sex, that causes infidelity, and I stand by that. Damned if I can figure out how one goes without the other, though.

[beccak1961.livejournal.com]

I don't know... when we first came back to the states and got online I got into cyber and a became somewhat attached to someone who was seemingly attached to me also, and our spouses knew about it... but it always felt very uncomfortable for me, and I realized that if Jim were having the very same relationship with someone else I'd not take it well. So I believe attacted emotions are very important in the equation. I want, and expect back, emotional and physical monogamy (emotional not to be confused with fantasy, he can watch porn til the cows come er...home... )

[featherynscale.livejournal.com]

Hey now. I'm the second woman in my house, and I'm older than her, but younger than him. Of course, we're not operating by the add-a-wife mormon rules, so it's probably different. Their model is closer to a man owning a woman (or some women, cause, after all, you can have more than one cow, right?) -- polyamory, not so much like that.

[beccak1961.livejournal.com]

I was specifically referring to the Mormon Poly's I've seen, and I'll admit I've only seen a limited amount on TV and such:)

[featherynscale.livejournal.com]

Also, high on the list of questions I probably really don't want the answer to:

So the usual legal complaint about Mormon-style polygamy is that it leads to abuse of the wives. And what I'm wondering here is this. If you're a wife in a multi-wife marriage, and your husband is abusive to you and the other wives, why don't you gang up on him and beat the hell out of him for a change? There are, definitionally, more of you than there are of him.

But maybe that's just me.

[beccak1961.livejournal.com]

Maybe the man looks for a certain type? There are "religious" men and women who believe the bible gives open season on how the woman is treated, all boiling down to the verse on a woman should submit to her husband.

[rio-luna.livejournal.com]

biglove appears to be wacko xian polygynists. more later.

hat was scott's idea of polyfidelity--that opening the marraieg was a last ditch effort to save a crumbling monogamy. try as i might, could not convince him that poly shoudl be a strong relationship expanding ebvcsue of love, not punishing me because i'm not sexually available.

and of course, poly meant he could fuck the girls he wanted, and i...could fuck the girls he wanted. no otehr penises please. one per hosuehold.

yeah, not so good.

[featherynscale.livejournal.com]

Lame.

But then, I hear that Scott is an asshole. And possibly also a Dogboy. So what do you expect, really?

[rio-luna.livejournal.com]

i do wish they'd do soemthing credible on multiple partnerships, though. without the wacko xian overlay or a 'poly destroyed my happy home' narrative.

[chronarchy.livejournal.com]

making it seem more like polyamory is about cheating and getting more sex no matter what

They don't really have to try that hard, though. That's the common perception of it. It's the perception I had of it until I met perlgirlju, honestly, and I still find myself skeptical of the entire process of poly-anything, though I'm far more willing to give the benefit of the doubt now that I've met her and you guys (who seem to make it work and not be constantly obsessed with sex over regular relationship issues). But I still meet poly-people who are just. . . scum of the earth creeps, and I have difficulty, primarily due to volume, in seperating them out.

Dr. Phil, though, makes it pretty obvious how he thinks just in the little blurb there. I don't see a lot of objectivity. Not that anyone who is going to "convicne his wife to share him" even though it "makes her sick" necessarily deserves objectivity. . .

[featherynscale.livejournal.com]

That's the common perception of it.

Yeah, I know. That's why some more positive examples would be a big help. I think that there are more people out there who are like us, and are having a multi-partner relationship because they happen to love all their partners, and want to be happy with everyone together. I know there are, because I know some of them, and I talk to others of them on the odd email list, and so on. But we're not very exciting, you know, and nobody wants to put us on television.

And, really, we don't want to be on television. It's the sort of "Look at ME! I'm doing something DIFFERENT! You can't comprehend it!" people that do want to be on television, or otherwise obnoxiously public about their lives. If you're doing a thing for shock value or public recognition of how wildly different you are, you're probably not going to be the best of all possible representatives for whatever the thing is. In fact, you're probably an asshole.

I'm pleased that we're changing your view at least a little. I mean, yes, we probably are perverts, but we're a decent sort of pervert, and that's not really the point of our relationship. It's more a side benefit.

[chronarchy.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah: who'd want to hear that poly relationships are just like their relationships? What kind of a story is that?

It's good to not be exciting, in the end.