While we're on the subject of gender and information-gathering...

[featherynscale]

[Poll #650071]

Comments

[rougewench.livejournal.com]

I would actually change the structure of the first sentence to use the plural "students" and then use the plural pronoun "they" and the verb "are".

The second sentence I would also reconstruct rather than use a singular pronoun to change the end of the statement to read "didn't know that it is not appropriate to draw on the pages."

But that's just me.


D.

[greektoomey.livejournal.com]

If at all possible, I would do as rougewench suggests, and reconstruct the sentence.

If reconstruction is not feasible for whatever reason, I prefer to alternate between "she" and "he."

[diermuid.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure there is that much of a question, although I hate it when people use "he or she". 'They' is proper, as long as the rest of the sentence is correctly formatted. I'm not sure why some people seem to struggle with this, I never had.

A note - I believe "he or she" is correct too, I just find it ugly. But then I got A's in French and F's in English, so I'm a bit of a snob in that respect. 8-)

[zylch.livejournal.com]

I assume that this is for spoken English, not written -- spoken I tend to use singular "they," written I tend to use s/he.

Also, you got my thought-about answers rather than my instant reactions, because after years at a women's college I've grown accustomed to sentences about students using the feminine pronoun exclusively.

[triadruid.livejournal.com]

I also assumed it was about spoken English, because you can be a little more specific without sacrificing clarity in written text.

[featherynscale.livejournal.com]

I was actually thinking of written forms, but I am interested in the spoken forms as well. When I write, I do sometimes use s/he, which of course is stupid when you say it.

[next-bold-move.livejournal.com]

I can't get past the use of "he or she." I know that the singular "they" is gaining acceptance, but it sounds terrible to my ear. Working around the problem is fine with me: if you work the sentence so that "they" is correct, that's okay.

But if you have a singular subject, anything other than "he or she" tends to set my teeth on edge, for the intersection of grammar and gender issues.

[Ah! At last, a chance to use my grammar icon!]

[celticwhistlin.livejournal.com]

I interpreted this as spoken not written. In written form I tend to use he/she. In spoken form, I use they.

[lordkalkin.livejournal.com]

I like the construction RAW and Leary use, namely SHe for the nominative pronoun Hir for the genitive/objective pronoun (the capitalization is important here).

[kittenpants.livejournal.com]

When writing, I use "s/he". When speaking, I use "they". I usually pause for a second before I say it, wondering how to pronounce "s/he" before I shift into "they". So I took that to mean "s/he" is my preference, since it's my mental default.

Write as I say, not as I do?

[niveus-tigris.livejournal.com]

I tend more towards what I would consider proper english in both my spoken and written communication. Writing s/he is just as awkward as writing priest/ess or bachelor/ette. While they might be fun to use in certain situations, they are less than proper and impossible to say if you don't want to sound like you're stuttering. Analytically, I am always conscious of how well people understand what I am trying to say. So, I use they.

[fred-smith.livejournal.com]

Damn, I'm the only Spivak Fan here, it seems.

[featherynscale.livejournal.com]

That may be so. I'd like the Spivak set more if I could ever remember what the singular possessive form is, I think. But lo, I never can. The zie ones are easier: zie/zer and presumable zeir, if there were more than one zie about. But e/er? E/eir? Can't ever remember.

[fionnabhar.livejournal.com]

I like s/he because it's succinct, inclusive, and pronounced just like "she" in one's head. That seems as if it would be fair for the next couple of millenia or so.

That said, I only do this when, as others have said, reformatting for the plural is simply impossible, which is rare.

[teross50.livejournal.com]

I wanna know like "hse" knows 8-)

[fred-smith.livejournal.com]

E/eir. I think. Way I see it, if we used it, it would get remembered easilly enough

[ysabel.livejournal.com]

I actually tend to spell the specific "sie" rather than "zie", but I have a mild preference for "sie" over "they" in the second case. (Though I'll use "they" in formal writing for both cases, not just the first.)

[ysabel.livejournal.com]

...the singular "they" is gaining acceptance...

Actually, last I checked, it's the archaic form, so "reacceptance" might be more accurate.

Correct English...pronoun mismatches

[lady-bronwyn.livejournal.com]

*blinks* *puts on Professor hat*

Can I use these questions for my English exams on Monday? These sentences are actually great examples of pronoun mismatches. Many students in my College English class (and, apparently, in every day life...;)) make these mistakes. People often write as they speak.

Seriously, the correct pronoun choice in both of the above questions would be "he or she." One does not know the gender of the singular student, and he or she is gender inclusive, which is correct Standard American English. "They" would be used for multiple students.

Blessings!

[lady-bronwyn.livejournal.com]

I adore your icon...this is BRILLIANT! ;)

Re: Correct English...pronoun mismatches

[featherynscale.livejournal.com]

Sure, go ahead. :)

I'm trying not to correct people about any of these things these days, since I think that this is an area where the language is getting a bit squishy around the edges and will probably experience a change someday soon.

The preferred use of the singular 'they' seems particularly strong, which I think is a little odd, but hey. The language goes where the speakers will it to go, right?

Re: Correct English...pronoun mismatches

[lady-bronwyn.livejournal.com]

You asked, "The preferred use of the singular 'they' seems particularly strong, which I think is a little odd, but hey. The language goes where the speakers will it to go, right?"

*chuckles* I would be inclined most times to tell you yes, that is right...people tend to use what they hear...that does not make it necessarily RIGHT, however. I am old-fashioned, and using they is simply not correct English, no matter how commonplace or popular it has become. As an English instructor, I am inclined to correct language when it is misspoken or miswritten; that has become my habit. ;)

Language shifts with time and place. Unfortunately, much of what is spoken today as slang is entering the mainstream, and even entering our dictionaries. Language metmorphoses with time, technology, and constant use. ;) Who knows; in 50 years, 'they' might be taught as correct, even though it goes against the rules of subject/pronoun agreement. We shall see!

Thanks for the brain-teasing post; this really allowed me to get my English geek on...;)